The Spirit and the Star: a Roundtable Interview with Ong-bak's Tony Jaa

By Jim Shippey, DC Film Society Director of Operations
February 2005

On a rather sunny afternoon one Monday afternoon this winter I made a sojourn up Pennsylvania Avenue to join a motley crew of youthful fan writers talking about the Next Big Thing. In the lobby I spy a small form engaging in action poses for a photographer, changing out positions as graceful as dolphin in water. Yes, today would be a lesson in not trusting appearances. Barely standing up to my chin, the man becoming known to the world as Tony Jaa is sitting at the head of a long table, sharing a laugh with his translator. This master of Tae Kwon Do, Gymnastics, Sword fighting, and a rather unknown martial art style named Muay Thai has a rather innocent demeanor about him that belies the violence inherent in his action scenes; he is gracious as he shakes my hand, being the last man in the room.

[NOTE: Roundtable questions were not completely attributable, thus they are signified with a simple ‘Q’. Questions posed by Jim Shippey are signified ‘JJS’.]

Q: Do you think you could beat all us [the roundtable?]
Tony Jaa: (Laughs) Naw, some of you guys look too strong (Laughter).

Q: how did you get involved in martial arts?
Tony Jaa: I first started when I was 10 years old, watching films by Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and, and of course, Master Panna [Rittikrai]. I took a liking to martial arts. My father was a Thai boxer. I would watch these films and I would practice these moves at home on my own. At age 15 I wanted to study with Panna, who lived in Khonget, a province in the Northeastern highlands. I traveled there and began to study with him. While there I came to work on films doing various jobs, from being a water boy, to cleaning the sets, to cooking, to holding the umbrella over the cameraman. I worked my way up to become an extra. I was able to hang around the stuntmen and was able to learn their moves. So I eventually became a stuntman myself. Doing that, you begin to learn all of the martial arts together. I was able to study martial arts more extensively at a physical education academy in the province of Maha Sarakham, where you can learn all of the martial arts.

Q: Is there a difference between martial arts on film and martial arts as sport?
Tony Jaa: It's different in film because of more detail, and it's more of an art. On a stage you only want a victory; you want to hit your opponent for points, and it makes all of the beauty in the arts disappear. In film you get to see the moves in more detail, which brings out the beauty of the art.

JJS: Tony, this is the first time we have seen you as an actor as opposed to doing just stunt work. You now have to worry about lines, about appearing with other actors. Can you talk about the transition to being front and center of the camera from being in the background only fighting?
Tony Jaa: Yes, when you are a stunt man you are usually behind the scenes, because no one knows it is you doing the moves and stunts. Coming in front of the camera allows the audience to be more in touch with you and with what you are doing. It allows the viewers to be captivated and more in awe along with you, seeing that you are really doing those moves. It is definite that it is you doing those stunts. What attracted me to Ong-bak was the chance to do those stunts and show that those moves were for real [no wires]. Also, it was the first time that Muay Thai (Jaa's martial art style) has been shown on film. It is a chance for viewers to see the beauty in the movements involved in Muay Thai in a definite manner, without the use of computer graphics or [wire] stunts of any kind.

Q: Can you talk about the preparation and choreography that went into this film?
Tony Jaa: With Ong-bak , the goal was always to show true Muay Thai , and to show it in the best way. In the film you see gymnastics combined with martial arts. It is the art of film combined with the art of martial arts. Some moves you usually see, when put in, do not look as good on film. We don't use those. We take into consideration what the moves will look like on screen. It was important that the viewers be captivated by the action sequences. In the film you get to see the good and the bad, reflected through the characters. The sense of comedy and drama combined into one movie is what we wanted the viewers to get in touch with.

Q: Tony, in the film there is a scene in a marketplace where you jump through a barbed wire ring. Is there a point where fear comes into your head when doing these stunts?
Tony Jaa: There are a lot of preparations, safety preparations of course. The preparations and my training made me confident in the barbed wire scene. When we started we had a large ring that I would jump through. We then started to shrink the ring to see how small we could go, to develop the movements needed to make it stunning to the audience. Then I do a split under a car. We thought about how to combine things to make the scene more captivating. Again, we did this to show people that these stunts are real, that real people are actually doing these things!

Q: So, no fear?
Tony Jaa: Hmmm (he mulls that for a moment) maybe a little bit of fear, but that transforms into happiness when we do these stunts.

Q: You seem very focused on making things realistic and you seem to have bit of animosity towards wire-fu. Do you think the use of wires is cheating?
Tony Jaa: Well, using wires is an art I suppose, that some artists choose to use. Maybe some viewers watching [wire-fu] see it as an art. But if you look at it in a different sense, I know I can do these stunts without wires, so I was thinking why not present something different to viewers and do these stunts without wires.

Q: So do you think that when people watch wire-fu they have a hard time taking it seriously?
Tony Jaa: Yes, it's challenging when people come up and ask you how did you that; that lack of use of wires is what my success is based upon.

Q: You mentioned earlier some martial artists you admired. Is there one who influenced you the most?
Tony Jaa: Maybe it was the movies that inspired me, because I didn't pick them out but I did see them all. My influences come from Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and my Master Panna. I regard all of them as my masters. From Bruce Lee I received his swiftness, his speed of moves; from Jackie Chan I took his ability to combine movements inspired by things around him; and from Jet Li, his beautiful movements and grace; and from Master Panna, I was able to combine all of this under Muay Thai as part of learning my skill, along with learning the teachings of the Buddha and the ways of the spirit.

Q: In American cinema Asians are usually portrayed in a couple of ways, either a warrior or a wise old man. What do think about these stereotypes? Do you see this film, or one in your future as breaking down these images of Asians and Asian-Americans?
Tony Jaa: It's really up to the director as to how he wants to present Asian characters. In Ang Lee's Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and Yimou Zhang's Hero you see a real sense of Chinese culture bring presented. In Ong-bak , you see the tradition and way of life of Thai culture. More importantly, you get to the ancient form of Muay Thai tradition being presented in the movie.

Q: On American television there are ads featuring The RZA singing your praises. He is obviously a fan of you, and I was wondering if you are a fan of his or the Wu-Tang Clan?
Tony Jaa: At first I didn't know him, but when I heard of him and heard that he was a fan of my movie, and I heard that he had composed the soundtrack for Kill Bill , I really liked him and was very happy he liked the movie.

JJS: Tony, I know the film played the Toronto Film Festival back in 2003. Since then the film has been making its way all across the globe. One, are you surprised that the film appears to be having larger appeal than traditional for this genre of film? Second, the title of the film in the United States is Ong-bak: The Thai Warrior , which may be culturally confusing to us because, you are not Ong-bak, you are Ting; you are a Thai warrior, but what is missing is that you are specifically a Muay Thai warrior. How do you feel about that?
Tony Jaa: (Laughs) That has to do with promotions. Really, my success in Thailand would have been enough for me. Now to see my film become successful in places beyond, from Asia to Europe and now America is beyond my wildest dreams. Just to see a film from my country, a small country, being able to show so many people Thai culture and Thai heritage is so beautiful.

Q: In the opening of the film we see a traditional Thai village, but as the story progresses we are taken to modern Bangkok. There appears to be a conflict between the traditional and the modern, but it's martial arts which bridge that gap. Can you talk about your character who travels between the traditional and modern?
Tony Jaa: The first scene was not actually a scene from a traditional Thai way of life but rather a variation on a traditional game played by children. What we are showing is an example of rural Thai life. With Ting, coming from that tradition, he has the determination to persevere on his mission. He struggles, but he endures. With Muay Thai , the dedication and spirituality you get from practicing it gives you strength to carry on. You also learn that when you do good, you receive good; when you do bad, you receive bad.

Q: You are being compared to Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. Are you at all embarrassed by these comparisons? How do these comparisons make you feel?
Tony Jaa: Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan are my masters, so I would never compare myself to them personally. There is only one Bruce Lee in the world. There is only one Jackie Chan in the world. There is only one Jet Li in the world, and there is only one Tony Jaa in the world! (laughs).

Q: Has anyone from Hollywood contacted you?
Tony Jaa: (rolls his eyes) Jackie Chan wanted to meet me for dinner when we were in Hong Kong, but we failed to connect. Quentin Tarantino saw the film via The RZA and he is interested in working with me. Everything is in talks right now.

Q: What is your day like as far as physical condition is concerned?
Tony Jaa: I do things like walk on my hands when I go to the bathroom plus push ups, to warm up.

Q: More specifically, what is your training regimen?
Tony Jaa: In preparation for Ong-bak , I trained 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. I know that doing too much is bad, but so is doing too little. If I find myself feeling sore, I would go out into nature, or go sing karaoke (laughter).

Q: Do you ever go out to eat fast food?
Tony Jaa: Not as much as US kids seem to do!

Q: What makes Muay Thai different from other martial arts?
Tony Jaa: Probably the use of elbows and knees extensively. The realness of Muay Thai separates it.

Q: What hurts more, stunts in films or competition?
Tony Jaa: Well, there are precautions taken in film work to minimize the pain. Sometime the safety harnesses fail after several uses and then

JJS: Tony, do you ever worry, that as your popularity increases, someone [like a producer] will ask you not to perform your own stunts?
Tony Jaa: No, I'm not worried because I know what I can do, my limits. I take part in my own choreography, and we put on film not only what looks beautiful, but also what I can physically do.

Q: In the film, how do you reconcile the two aspects of Muay Thai, one being a sport in fight clubs where people earn money from its use, and the other being a means of spirituality in the village?
Tony Jaa: We present in the film both good and bad people and that is reflected in the philosophy of the teachings of Muay Thai that we wanted to put in.

JSS: Tony, can I ask you one last thing? What do you prefer to your self as these days, Movie Star or Martial Artist?
Tony Jaa: Oh, I will always be a Martial Artist!

 

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